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avatar Re: prostitution
December 18, 2008 01:48PM
It has been my observation that people in general are unable to ignore emotion and focus entirely on the logical consequences of things.
This is probably why women in general(Especially mothers) are unable to think about legal prostitution as being the better of two non ideal options. That said I know some who would agree with me, so this is probably a slightly unfair generalization.

--
"Knowledge has much better uses than self-pity and superiority"
Anonymous User
Re: prostitution
December 18, 2008 01:48PM
not at all Celene. Now go make us a sammich winking smiley
Anonymous User
Re: prostitution
December 18, 2008 01:50PM
I make a nice cyanide sandwich...
avatar Re: prostitution
December 18, 2008 01:50PM
celene Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> wow goose, you're telling a woman to stay out of a
> discussion because "it is not possible for women
> to debate the pros and cons of whether
> prostitution
> should be legal or not".
>
> no wonder the human race is so twisted, when so
> many of the population think women are just dumb
> holes for sticking penises into.


No, because you have thrown away all pretense at intellectual effort when it comes to
the topic of prostitution. Just for the record, *you* are the one advocating that
women have no choice in what they do with their bodies, not me.

You're the sexist one here, trying to limit what an individual[1] may do, not me.


[1]Men can be prostitutes too
Anonymous User
Re: prostitution
December 18, 2008 01:51PM
Anonymous User
Re: prostitution
December 18, 2008 01:52PM
goose, are male prostitutes oppressed and exploited too?
avatar Re: prostitution
December 18, 2008 01:54PM
Quote

goose, are male prostitutes oppressed and exploited too?
Some of them. Especially the ones that are under aged.

--
"Knowledge has much better uses than self-pity and superiority"
Anonymous User
Re: prostitution
December 18, 2008 01:55PM
under aged doesn't even enter the debate. That's filed under statutory rape
avatar Re: prostitution
December 18, 2008 01:57PM
Quote

under aged doesn't even enter the debate. That's filed under statutory rape
Wrong.
Under aged is very important to the debate as it is less likely to happen if the entire system is legalized and more likely to happen if it is not.
It forms a part of the sort of illegal activities that grow around something when it is wrongfully made illegal and criminal elements take over.

--
"Knowledge has much better uses than self-pity and superiority"
Anonymous User
Re: prostitution
December 18, 2008 01:59PM
malcolm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Under aged is very important to the debate as it
> is less likely to happen if the entire system is
> legalized and more likely to happen if it is not.

That is so wrong. So in other words, you're saying that child sex occurs for lack of other types of sex? No dude, there're some ppl who go in specifically for that. It's a crime. No legalization.
avatar Re: prostitution
December 18, 2008 02:02PM
Rick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> goose, are male prostitutes oppressed and
> exploited too?

Probably, I see no reason why not. The issue is emotionally loaded, which is why
this is even a question.

As I see it, the question isn't "should X be legal", it should be "are there any good
reasons to make X illegal"? When X == Prostitution, I see no reason why the state should
have a say in what two consenting adults do to each other in the privacy of a bedroom.

It used to be illegal to be gay as well, Turing was arrested, convicted and had his
life taken apart due to sodomy laws. There is no practical difference between a law
making sodomy illegal and a law making sex-for-sale illegal, but one has been struck
from the books and the other will no doubt be as well in the future.

The state, the society and my neighbours should stay the fsck out of my bedroom, and who
I bring into it, and why they follow me in. Listening to women argue from an emotional
and irrational viewpoint to limit the freedom of other women is tiresome, and I
wish they'd grow up.
avatar Re: prostitution
December 18, 2008 02:03PM
Quote

That is so wrong. So in other words, you're saying that child sex occurs for lack of other types of sex? No dude, there're some ppl who go in specifically for that. It's a crime. No legalization.
No, I am saying that when you make something like prostitution illegal you grow an entire underground illegal scene around it usually involving a bunch of other illegal activities. You also have a bunch of people who are already breaking one law and therefore will feel less bad about breaking another.

When you don't make something like prostitution illegal these other activities can no longer feed off it and hide behind it[1], as such they are likely to be reduced drastically and be easier to police in general.

[1] A lucrative legal prostitution business is less likely to risk its legal profits supporting stuff like this(If they do it would be easier to catch them) meaning stuff like this will have to be conducted illegally and separately, at which point it becomes far less viable from several angles.(Less easy to hide, easier to police, less profit for the illegal guys etc..)

--
"Knowledge has much better uses than self-pity and superiority"
avatar Re: prostitution
December 18, 2008 02:04PM
Rick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> rklopper Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Thats the point, if brothels were legal, they
> > could be regulated, and then the girl; on the
> > street would be better off working for a
> brothel.
> > At the moment, the brothel is not protecting
> them
> > at all, they are extorting them!
>
> I think your views are shaped by your experiences:
> a nice job, house, etc. Those girls "chose
> something else" (apologies to trainspotting)

We are used to that yes, but remember that everyone is differnt. Most of them have no education, so they dont reason like we would. It does not mean they should just be left to their own demise though...
Anonymous User
Re: prostitution
December 18, 2008 02:07PM
oh my soul, that is priceless grinning smiley
avatar Re: prostitution
December 18, 2008 02:07PM
Rick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> malcolm Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Under aged is very important to the debate as
> it
> > is less likely to happen if the entire system
> is
> > legalized and more likely to happen if it is
> not.
>
> That is so wrong. So in other words, you're
> saying that child sex occurs for lack of other
> types of sex? No dude, there're some ppl who go
> in specifically for that. It's a crime. No
> legalization.


You two seem to have your wires crossed - AIUI, Malcolm is arguing that if the
profession is legal, then it is relatively easy to police the system for actual
illegal activities such as 15 year olds (who look 16) working in the profession.

Rick is arguing that those who go in for sex with actual kiddies (9 year olds
who look 9) will not at all be affected by legal prostitution because what they
are into is inherently illegal anyway.

Hmmmm?
avatar Re: prostitution
December 18, 2008 02:10PM
Rick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> goose, are male prostitutes oppressed and
> exploited too?

And interesting point to mention is that sexual violation is not the same for men and woman. I couldn't believe it when I first heard it. Vaginal rape used to be illegal when it came to woman, but not anal rape. Now, anal rape is also illegal, but only for woman. For men, it is not illegal to be rape another man anally. It is just seen a sodomy or something. All the men in the jails have no protection, as in south african law, it is technically not possible to rape another man.
avatar Re: prostitution
December 18, 2008 02:10PM
malcolm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It has been my observation that people in general
> are unable to ignore emotion and focus entirely on
> the logical consequences of things.

I do.
avatar Re: prostitution
December 18, 2008 02:11PM
Rick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> oh my soul, that is priceless grinning smiley

What is?

Lelanthran "I-quote-so-you-don't-have-to" Manickum smile
avatar Re: prostitution
December 18, 2008 02:13PM
Rick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> oh my soul, that is priceless grinning smiley


What I am meaning to say is that mr Trump is sitting in his penthouse looking at you and wondering how you can live like that and how easy it would be for you to just "do something different" and get rich...but you dont know what you dont know.
avatar Re: prostitution
December 18, 2008 02:13PM
Quote

malcolm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It has been my observation that people in general
> are unable to ignore emotion and focus entirely on
> the logical consequences of things.

I do.
You are certainly not a "general" person.

--
"Knowledge has much better uses than self-pity and superiority"
Anonymous User
Re: prostitution
December 18, 2008 02:16PM
Quote

What I am meaning to say is that mr Trump is sitting in his penthouse looking at you and wondering how you can live like that and how easy it would be for you to just "do something different" and get rich...but you dont know what you dont know.

Is wealth a true measure of correct reasoning power?
avatar Re: prostitution
December 18, 2008 02:18PM
malcolm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > malcolm Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------
> ------
> > It has been my observation that people in
> general
> > are unable to ignore emotion and focus entirely
> on
> > the logical consequences of things.
>
> I do.
>
> You are certainly not a "general" person.

Neither are you[1], but any rational argument between the two of us would invite the
ire of those who presume to argue from the heart. For example, in this forum emotionally
loaded arguments are common purely because the argue-from-heart people enter arguments
with the 'argue-from-logic' people, so I feel it is entirely relevant to inform you,
during an argument, that I'm not actually arguing from emotion smile


[1] Well, from what I can tell of your posting history, that is. I've not found any
argument of yours based on emotion.
avatar Re: prostitution
December 18, 2008 02:19PM
Rick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What I am meaning to say is that mr Trump is
> sitting in his penthouse looking at you and
> wondering how you can live like that and how easy
> it would be for you to just "do something
> different" and get rich...but you dont know what
> you dont know.
>
> Is wealth a true measure of correct reasoning
> power?

If you have lots of money, you can make it be smile
Anonymous User
Re: prostitution
December 18, 2008 02:22PM
for sure. fsck the others too dumb to see how I got there. Buy low, sell high! yeehaaa, get them commie aethiests
avatar Re: prostitution
December 18, 2008 02:23PM
lol

--
"Knowledge has much better uses than self-pity and superiority"
avatar Re: prostitution
December 18, 2008 02:54PM
Rick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What I am meaning to say is that mr Trump is
> sitting in his penthouse looking at you and
> wondering how you can live like that and how easy
> it would be for you to just "do something
> different" and get rich...but you dont know what
> you dont know.
>
> Is wealth a true measure of correct reasoning
> power?


Are you choosing to not understand this? Let me use another example, some buddhist monk looks at you thinking, shame man, if only you would do A B or C. You would not think that there is anything wrong with where you are...

I am saying that people who are perceived better off always think others should know how to get out of there "hole". We cant look at these woman and say, jeez louise, what are you thinking? We cant say they dont have an excuse and should just shape up! We cant pretend to know the solutions to their problems. But if we, as supposedly educated people, have the influence to help pass a law that makes it legal, then those people can at least start helping themselves!
Anonymous User
Re: prostitution
December 18, 2008 02:59PM
You quite right, Riaan. It's up to us to make a better society, and not everyone thinks the same way about some things. I'm in a chill mood today - tomorrow I go on leave. My company saw fit to let me know this morning - after I asked in October what the plan was. Oh well.

Back Door Man - The Doors
Argh! Huh!
Whoah, yeah.
Yeah! C'mon! Yeah!

Oh, yeah, I'm a — yeah, I'm a back door man,
I'm a back door man.
The men don't know,
But the little girls understand.

Well, all you people, they're tryin' to sleep,
I'm out to makin' with my midnight creep— yeah,
'Cause I'm a back door man.
The men don't know
But the little girls understand.
All right, yeah!

You men eat your dinner,
Eat your pork and beans
I eat more chicken
Any man ever seen — yeah, yeah.

I'm a back door man — wha!
The men don't know
But the little girls understand.

Well, I'm a back door man,
I'm a back door man.
Whoa, baby — I'm a back door man.
The men don't know
But the little girls understand.
Re: prostitution
December 18, 2008 03:16PM
Why should we be the ones to decide on this? Should prostitutes/users of prostitutes not be the ones? Think before you answer this... to me, personally, it goes hand in hand with people trying to make policy for, say, blind people, without actually consulting blind people.

And then, are red light districts not a way of making sure that, in case you don't agree with prostitution, it is not in your face and also provides for a manageable sized area to control all the not so great things that usually go with it, e.g. drug abuse etc?

I loathe to think what drives a woman to become a prostitute, I honestly can not imagine it is a preferred life, but I would sure have her protected by law at least rather than left out there with nothing to fall back on, if things turn against her.
avatar Re: prostitution
December 18, 2008 03:27PM
goose Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> malcolm Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > malcolm Wrote:
> >
> -------------------------------------------------
> > ------
> > > It has been my observation that people in
> > general
> > > are unable to ignore emotion and focus
> entirely
> > on
> > > the logical consequences of things.
> >
> > I do.

Bs. You are naive if you think your judgment is emotionless. What you percieve as emotionless is infact just another emotion and you are still as much a victim of your own convictions in the face of pure truth. Scientific process can circumvent but not erase influence of our beliefs.
avatar Re: prostitution
December 18, 2008 04:05PM
**Why should we be the ones to decide on this? Should prostitutes/users of prostitutes not be the ones?**

They (the prostitutes) have been trying to do this for years, but they just dont have the influence to bring urgency to the matter. The people in power has the attitude of them being dirty throw aways, so who cares in anyway...
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