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Posted by matthew 
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Re: evolution
October 10, 2007 10:15AM
Well, what exactly is a soul? Intelligence to have emotion? Ability to reason? I can precondition my dog to know he will be punished for eating the cat. But still he might do it thinking he can trick me into believing it was the cat that started it. That seems like reason. Does that give him a soul? What about mice? Do they feel emotion? Studies have shown that a frog's eye cannot perceive the world in much detail. Only a movement of a tiny object, stimulates its brain to think food. Does a frog have a soul? Humans have much more perception of the world and much more brain functionality than animals. Does that give us a soul?
Anonymous User
Re: evolution
October 10, 2007 10:48AM
Humans have much more perception of the world and much more brain functionality than animals. Does that give us a soul?

No... thats just gives us a better ability to perceive (some things only) that our fellow mammals. We may have better reasoning abilities also.

sometimes I wonder if lesser brain functionality actually means more soul. less reasoning = more soul.
avatar Re: evolution
October 10, 2007 11:29AM
matthew Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @RiaanR
>
> are you on the "christian" side of the discussion?
> if you are, re-read the chapter of the first book
> of the bible (what i was saying about knowing what
> you believe before you try to inflict it on
> others).

lol, i was reading around genesis on that biblegateway site you linked and found this truly wonderful passage (from http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=1&chapter=19&version=31):

Quote

30 Lot and his two daughters left Zoar and settled in the mountains, for he was afraid to stay in Zoar. He and his two daughters lived in a cave. 31 One day the older daughter said to the younger, "Our father is old, and there is no man around here to lie with us, as is the custom all over the earth. 32 Let's get our father to drink wine and then lie with him and preserve our family line through our father."

33 That night they got their father to drink wine, and the older daughter went in and lay with him. He was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.

34 The next day the older daughter said to the younger, "Last night I lay with my father. Let's get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and lie with him so we can preserve our family line through our father." 35 So they got their father to drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went and lay with him. Again he was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.

36 So both of Lot's daughters became pregnant by their father.

ahhh, it must be so nice to worship a god who has his priorities regarding homosexuality and incest in check smiling smiley


> Genisis 1:26 (BibleGateway.com)
> "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after
> our likeness: and let them have dominion over the
> fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and
> over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over
> every creeping thing that creepeth upon the
> earth."

yay, dominion over all that creepeth! go humanity! smileys with beer
avatar Re: evolution
October 10, 2007 12:42PM
matthew Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @RiaanR
>
> are you on the "christian" side of the discussion?
> if you are, re-read the chapter of the first book
> of the bible (what i was saying about knowing what
> you believe before you try to inflict it on
> others).
>
> Genisis 1:26 (BibleGateway.com)
> "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after
> our likeness: and let them have dominion over the
> fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and
> over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over
> every creeping thing that creepeth upon the
> earth."

MMMMMM....I think I was misunderstood. I was merely stating the fact that: you can't prove / disprove something if what you are using to do it, comes from the "thing" you are trying to prove / disprove. You can't prove man was made as a image of god, by using the bible as the only reference.

BTW: I'm not for nor am I against religion. I'm just against blindingly believing in something.
avatar Re: evolution
October 10, 2007 12:49PM
Oh a lets not forget Christianity promotes cannibalism. Eat the body of Christ and drink his blood....my goodness! *joking*
Re: evolution
October 10, 2007 04:45PM
RiaanR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MMMMMM....I think I was misunderstood. I was
> merely stating the fact that: you can't prove /
> disprove something if what you are using to do it,
> comes from the "thing" you are trying to prove /
> disprove. You can't prove man was made as a image
> of god, by using the bible as the only reference.
>
> BTW: I'm not for nor am I against religion. I'm
> just against blindingly believing in something.

agreed... but i'm basing my statement on the christian position (based on the infallible word of god winking smiley ) that man is created in god's image...
avatar Re: evolution
October 10, 2007 08:45PM
Matthew in terms of the authorship of the Bible.

I heartily recommend this book. Link.

I think you would enjoy it; I did.

 
  ,= ,-_-. =.
 ((_/)o o(\_))
  `-'(. .)`-'
      \_/
http://ilanpillemer.com
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem
Re: evolution
October 11, 2007 08:51AM
looks interesting...
avatar Re: evolution
October 11, 2007 09:11AM
It is.

He reads the Bible in this book as if it was written by a woman living in David's court. And he is both a biblical scholar, a scholar of religion and one of the best Shakespearean literary theorists currently active in scholarship.

 
  ,= ,-_-. =.
 ((_/)o o(\_))
  `-'(. .)`-'
      \_/
http://ilanpillemer.com
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem
Re: evolution
October 12, 2007 07:15AM
@ Lycium,
Both Lot's daughters went on to bear children - however this family was completely wiped out at a later stage.
Re: evolution
October 12, 2007 07:22AM
Had a quick look at the book recommend by Ilan - looks interesting.
avatar Re: evolution
October 15, 2007 04:48PM
ilanpillemer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The hebrew word is Tzelem; and some Jewish
> scholars (eg Maimonides) argue that this word does
> not mean physical image; but refers to an innate
> quality.
>
> ie It does not mean that God has an anus and toes
> etc.
>
> But others disagree and think he has a anus and
> toes and farts and whatever.

Sorry, I am still catching up on the threads. They way I always understood it was that it refered to man being body/mind/spirit, trinity, just like god...

And please, I am not religious, but it is an interesting point of view.
avatar Re: evolution
October 15, 2007 04:54PM
also, a belated 10 cents from my side.....the bible should never be seen as facts, it is symbolic. Or at least, it is my opinion that it is symbolic spinning smiley sticking its tongue out
Re: evolution
October 18, 2007 10:10AM
smiling smiley convince all the christians in the world that the bible is not fact...

no use arguing with me about it... to me it is myth/fiction...
avatar Re: evolution
October 18, 2007 10:27AM
hehehe, yes.....all of the angels appearing, miracles, etc etc....funny that there is no proof that these are happing today. But, if you are a christian because you want to turn water into wine (a goo trade in SA), then you are already on the wrong track.... smiling smiley
Re: evolution
October 18, 2007 10:34AM
I've turned water into wine before.....
Take water, add icing sugar, add flour....leave for a min of 4days and Whoalah!
Amstel aint got sh*! on me? I brew my own stuff!

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
"If you can't Fly, Run. If you can't Walk, Crawl. But whatever you do, keep moving." Martin Luther King Jr.
Anonymous User
Re: evolution
October 18, 2007 11:08AM
flour, water, icing sugar - sounds more like sweet dough than wine or beer to me!
avatar Re: evolution
October 18, 2007 11:14AM
hehehe, GafMan, you are the messiah!
Re: evolution
October 18, 2007 12:35PM
SSHHH! It's a disguise...
Re: evolution
October 18, 2007 04:24PM
GafMan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SSHHH! It's a disguise...

smiling smiley a pretty good one, lord.
Re: evolution
October 18, 2007 10:24PM
It's a good question - why are there no miracles today (or at there appears to be none).
Compare this to the pentecostal revival of the late 1800's and early 20th century. (anyone heard of Smith Wigglesworth?) This pentecostal "movement" pretty much lasted until around the '60s. That is of course my opinion - but what happened. Were people in that era just more gullible and believing. Is it the information age? Who knows.
Some of the accounts I've read of this era are as spectacular as the accounts of miracles of Christ (not GafMan) and the early church.
Are these lies, overly emotional accounts of emotional experiences - or real?

Anyway - excuse my rambling - it beats preparing for tomorrows COS226 exam - I really couldn't give a damn about network technologies or protocols. So long as someone else gets them to work I'm happy.
avatar Re: evolution
October 19, 2007 12:00AM
I love the song in Fiddler on the Roof about miracles.

 
  ,= ,-_-. =.
 ((_/)o o(\_))
  `-'(. .)`-'
      \_/
http://ilanpillemer.com
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem
avatar Re: evolution
October 19, 2007 12:41AM
AndreB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's a good question - why are there no miracles
> today (or at there appears to be none).

there are plenty, we just have different names for it now: science and engineering smiling smiley

(i could probably perform plenty of "miracles" if i were to go back in time with a few 21st century tricks up my sleeve - remember that quote by arthur c clarke? magic is just a skip and a hop away from a miracle... maybe they'd write a big book about me too, so that future generations may also learn of my godly doings...)
Re: evolution
October 19, 2007 01:13AM
hmmm - perhaps.
That could open pandora's box on early civilizations and their perception of the gods, which may simply have been visits from people\beings from a more advanced civilization - who had a couple of Lycium's tricks up their sleeves.

Anyway - back to the most frustrating work I've done in a while - COS226, Networks. The assignments and mock exam are riddled with mistakes, and driving me to distraction. Could do with a bit of magic (aka a miracle) right now.
Anonymous User
Re: evolution
October 19, 2007 07:38AM
Wow you hate networks, its one of the subjects I totally love and wish UNISA had more advanced modules on this. I found COS226 way too easy and alright for an introductory course but I do wish they had a 3rd year subject on this.
avatar Re: evolution
October 19, 2007 09:00AM
You always hear about other people who experienced miracles. I for one would believe it if I see it with my own eyes, followed by an extensive investigation smiling smiley
avatar Re: evolution
October 19, 2007 09:16AM
cos226 was Absolut Ass, and i failed it on my ass too :| oh well, 2008 ahoy!
avatar Re: evolution
October 19, 2007 09:30AM
what is 226?

 
  ,= ,-_-. =.
 ((_/)o o(\_))
  `-'(. .)`-'
      \_/
http://ilanpillemer.com
Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem
Anonymous User
Re: evolution
October 19, 2007 09:38AM
COS226 == Computer networking

They use the Network+ textbook, which is elementary stuff. I was hoping for more advanced stuff when I took the subject but was in the end, it was dissapointing
avatar Re: evolution
October 19, 2007 09:48AM
whenever I was stuck with an elementary course....I always saw it as an opportunity to get back to the basics and sharpen those skills again. But if you work with it everyday, then my view is not relevant....
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